So my belief is that those are his words.Question (01:02:16), And Mr. Depp, I think you testified about this, but I just want to make sure Mr. Depp told you Amber gave as good as she got, correct?Dr Anderson (01:02:24), Did you ask what Mr. Depp meant by gave as good as she got?Dr Anderson (01:02:30), I was pretty aware of what he meant. He's also very verbal when no one's interrupting him. And Dr Anderson stated that Johnny "tried to deescalate far more than I think she did.(01:02:36), Is Dr Anderson's definition of mutual abuse that there was abusive type behavior from both parties even though it wasn't to equal degrees? No Yes Select an available time 9701 SW Barnes Rd, Suite 130, Portland, OR 97225 Wed Jan 18 Thu Jan 19 Fri Jan 20 9:35 am 10:00 am 10:05 am I know she led on more than one occasion and started it to keep him with herbecause abandonment and having him leave was her worst nightmare. So I did what psychologists do, you go through all of those notes and your brain because it's not as if you're not left with a very clear sense of what went on. They don't say a lot. Who slapped who? Dr Anderson (40:01), "I actually know what happened." Did she admit it?, I don't think she denied it, but what I believe from my notes was that she galloped off in a new direction, there was no more that Johnny Depp was going to say about what he was reporting. Dr Anderson's notes and testimony explicitly provides psychological reasons for Amber's physical attacks on Johnny several times(32:44)(33:42)(40:39), but there isn't that same attention to trying to explain why Johnny would hit Amber. How frequent and severe is the nonphysical abuse?". So there was how many one inch size bruises were on her face that you observed?Dr Anderson (59:55), Cross-Examinationon these points re bruises, A few minutes ago, you briefly spoke about seeing bruises about an inch on Amber heard space. "Question, "And the him whom she threw acan at. As a therapist and author of several books about partner abuse I've been following this case for a couple of years and was particularly interested in taking a detailed look at this testimony. AndI think he may have initiated it on occasions, too, that I'm less sure on.. Dr Anderson appears to believe Amber's stories. Philadelphia 76ers Premier League UFC. And you write: The physical violence that occurred between them appeared to me to be mutual., You never actually witnessed any physical violence by Mr. Depp or by Ms. Heard, correct?, Didn't fight on island until last day. June 18, 2016 -- This session was discussed during testimony. Next Post , Hi Angela It is unclear to me whether Dr Andersonexcuses Amber's behavior oris notingreasons for Amber's behavioras areas of focus for therapy. They're confusing, as you've seen or you haven't seen, actually. 1-Depp v. Heard: Johnny Depp Opening Statement . ], I think it is important that people recognize that reasons for behavior don't excuse behavior. She had rapid fire talking., I pointed out the process to her at some point, and she got it thatno one could actually have a decent dialogue with her if she was rapid firing and talking over and just barraging. But I don't have a photo of it. ", This makes it sound like Johnny has maliciously baited Amber. Its good to hear that you found the post interesting and helpful. I don't remember that well., Is that, Dr. Anderson, consistent with your understanding that there were no other entries on December 15 or December 17 relating to physical abuse?, There was nothing about physical abuse. You can find other locations and directions on Sharecare. LOCATIONS East San Gabriel Valley Mental Health Center 1359 N Grand Ave Covina, CA, 91724 Tel: (626) 229-3873 Mon8:00 am - 7:00 pm Tue8:00 am - 5:00 pm Wed8:00 am - 7:00 pm Thu8:00 am - 5:00 pm. By Hamel's standards, Dr Anderson underminesa diagnosis of mutual abuse herself in the very samestatementthat she presents the label: with Ms. Heard, he was triggered andthey engaged in what I saw asmutual abuse. This June 18th appointment happened after Johnny and Amber's divorce had begun and about 7 months after their last couple's appointment. ), Amber claims that Johnny smashed his finger himself in a drug-fueled rage. I know she came in in person to show me., Did she show you photos or did she show you both? That's kind of a direct quote. ", "Did she tell you that he had hit her first, or was she the one who initiated the slap? And I think he talked about how chaotic it was, how violent it was. Find Providers by Condition . And if she's triggered, she would hit him first.. Note: It sounds like the majority of the summary is redacted because it doesnt refer to DV. And then with Ms. Heard, he was triggered andthey engaged in what I saw asmutual abuse. She releases a story toPeople magazine. Looking insidethe therapy this couple receivedcan provide valuable insight to the general public, therapists, and others in the helping professions. Our website services, content, and products are for informational purposes only. 310-206-3551. And she slapped him because he was being incoherent in talking about being with another woman. And so is it your testimony that she showed you photos of her injuries shortly after the alleged event., Somewhere in the period while she still had injuries. He got aggressive, threatening, didn't touch him, hid in bathroom. What were you referring to there? Did she admit it? 7,752,060 and 8,719,052. Interestingly, during this same period of time, I am working on writing a book chapterwith tips for therapists who work withabused men. But even in her own stories, Amber is often the aggressor.). Sheryl Monaughan 46 reviews # 2 of 1320. In particular, women's abuse of men is often blamed on the men that are the target of their abuse. And then the onus is on me to not just be a good friend and hold someone's hand and talk about mom, but to actually make change. That typically means that they went over personal history forms. I wasn't looking to memorize it. Raising the issue and being shot down could easily be enough to stifle any willingness tovisitthe subject. Dr Anderson would be potentially crossing ethics lines if she shared information from an individual session during a couple's counseling appointment. ", Will she have advantage if she leaves him but files with police for abuse first? Was that a question that she asked you?, Yes. And she gave as good as she got. Many don't. Half the scenarioshad a husband who was aggressive and half had a wife who was aggressive. Her testimony focused on several sets of documents, Emails (such as ones about introductions and appointment arrangements). That Amber emailed Dr Anderson about an appointment on Sept 27, 2015is interesting in that we have a recorded 2-hour conversation between Johnny and Amber from the day before. I don't really remember. Dr. Laurel Anderson has 15 years of experience in clinical psychology. A sound bite that came out of Dr Anderson's testimony is that Johnny is reported to have said "She gave as good as she got.". Taylor and Francis. The content on our physician directory pages is only available to viewers in the United States. Dec 15, 2015 -- This session was discussed during testimony. "The first thing is evaluation, intake, gather material. When I was first subpoenaed or my notes were required years ago. Did Miss Heard tell you that she socked Mr. Depp? Dr. Anderson says Heard and Depp did not visit together on their first session. She doesn't go to see her for a session. "Male aggression toward females produced higher ratings of aggressiveness and more negative evaluations of perpetrators than female aggression toward males.". Mr. Depp's mother was in ICU. It was all about Christmas, and her therapist telling her one thing. And this refers to a session that was just you and Ms. Heard, correct?Dr Anderson (57:42), And this call, which was just between you and Ms. Heard and not Mr. Depp involved, that occurred on or about December 15, 2015?Dr Anderson (57:54)Yes.Question(57:55), And was it just shortly after that call when Ms. Heard showed you pictures and actually came into your office, is that right?Dr Anderson (58:06), She came in on 12/17, so yes.Question(58:09), So Ms. Herd came in on December 17 and you saw bruises on her face, is that correct?Dr Anderson (58:18), Was that bruising that you observed similar to the bruising that appeared on the photographs that she showed you?Dr Anderson (58:32), You testified that what you saw in person was similar to what you saw in the photographs Amber gave you, correct?Dr Anderson (58:41), When she came into your office on December 17, what did her face look like?Dr Anderson (58:50), What I recall is not purple, green and blue, but just a darkening, so kind of a darker gray-blue sort of thing. Yes.Question (46:30), Then you write: She threw can at him since home fighting. And he's trying to come to terms with it, and he still loves her and is mourning. I don't think she denied it, but what I believe from my notes was that she galloped off in a new direction and they continued to talk, and there was no more that Johnny Depp was going to say about what he was reporting. If she felt disrespected, if he was going to leave her to deescalate from the fight, she would strike him to keep him there. 1. I have worked with so many Psychologists and the activism over professionalism is real. Their dialogue -- he was cut off a lot. So I did what psychologists do, you go through all of those notes and your brain because it's not as if you're not left with a very clear sense of what went on. I'm notpresenting this as a perfect transcription, but I did check it for mistakes. I know she came in in person to show me.. Heard? We also know that Dr Anderson witnessed and noted (as I outlined in an earlier section) Amber dominate Johnny during joint couple's appointments. There was some testimony from the London trial that was under seal, so she may have presented this story there and it wasn't made public until now.). Education Laurel Anderson, PhD earned a degree of a Doctor of Philosophy. The testimony shows that DV was discussed during 3 out of 4 of the solo appointments that Amber had with Dr Anderson. What's Wrong with the Duluth Model for DV Treatment? Hi Kevin. PSY9217 (California). 13. ", She reported trying to initiate a fight with him one night by slapping him when she was offended by what he said.", there was one severe incident in December 2015 whenI truly feared for my life., including an apparently bruised eye and cut lip, It was also at this time that she showed me photos of her injuries., she talked to me by phone, and then came in the next day. That's not my language., Turn to page 13 where it says was chaotic, violent. Do you know what Mr. Depp was referring to there?. Oct 24, 2015 -- Phone session. The DV community's rejection of the idea of mutual abuse is grounded in their belief that DV is caused by patriarchy. Did you ask what Mr. Depp meant by gave as good as she got? He had been doing a lot of he was fucked up, as she would say, on a lot of drugs. "He was not on the call when she made these allegations, was he? Apr 14. Has the patient seen this doctor before? And he tried to deescalate far more than I think she did.Question (01:02:58), Do you know did Mr. Depp talk about his fingertip with you before June 18, 2016?Dr Anderson (01:03:06), No, because I would have written it when he first mentioned it to me.Question (01:03:10), Did you ever see Mr. Depp with an injury to his finger during any of your sessions with Mr. Depp or that counseling sessions together with Amber?Dr Anderson, During that session, yes. Another thing that infuriates me is her way of giving testimony of things she cant be sure of, because she never heard both sides/ didnt seem to look further into the DV claims. I guess what Im trying to say is that to me, her testimony felt biased with her partly somewhat speculative answers. Dr. Anderson failed both her patients, but actively harmed JD by characterizing their relationship as . [For more on what happened on this date:Johnny Depp and Amber Heard May 2016 Domestic Violence Abuse Accusation, What Happened?]. He late. I know she came in in person to show me.Question (55:24), Did she show you photos or did she show you both? #JohnnyDepp #AmberHeard @LawCrimeNetwork. My notes are jumbly. Laurel Anderson, PhD is a clinical psychologist who practices at Laurel Anderson, PhD Practice located at 9911 W Pico Blvd in Suite 1070 in Mar Vista, Los Angeles, CA 90035 (Los Angeles County). The first introduction is March 28, 2015: Laurel, my closest friend Amber on copy, wants to come see you alone first and then with her husband, Johnny. It is a common justification for domestic violence and other violence. But I'm also copying down a word here and there. Thank you! -Ann. ), Is Dr Andersonexaggerating Johnny's abuses and minimizing Amber's. She reported trying to initiate a fight with him one night by slapping him when she was offended by what he said."Question (54:37), Then in the last sentence: It was also at this time that she showed me photos of her injuries. When did Miss Heard show you photos of her alleged injuries?Dr Anderson (54:54), Well, to the best of my pulling together the information I wrote down, I'm saying it was right after that fight. That it was a point of pride. ", This is stunning given that earlier in the same phone session Amber stated that she hit Johnny "as he sat there talking incoherently. No closed fist. . Was chaotic violence, but gave as good as she got. What does that mean? "Okay, let's move to the next page, please. Yeah. Extreme fear of abandonment and becoming abusive whenthat fear is triggered is very typical of people with BPD. I'm listening. In her intake individual session after the 1st couple's appointment, Amber admits to hitting Johnny, including initiating physical violence on occasion, but says Johnny hit her first: So when she said in terms of physical abuse that he hits her, a no close fist means an open hand slap to me. Oct 21, 2015 --JD left part way through the session and the session continued with Amber alone. It could be four sessions. She knew that what they were doing wasn't healthy. But she gave as good as she got and she started it. The content on Healthgrades does not provide medical advice. He loved her. I just want to say I am really enjoying your site and your analysis of the Depp/Heard case. She was very amped up. No closed fist. Mr. Depp told you Amber gave as good as she got, correct?. She felt she had to hit him back if he hit her, and so she always did. He had been doing a lot of, he was fucked up, as she would say, on a lot of drugs. April 14, 2022, 7:48 PM Johnny Depp and Amber Heard were both violent, according to the former couple's marriage therapist. Any underlining that appears in the transcript excerpts is added by me to draw attention to that portion. She had rapid fire talking.Question (31:22), Did she interrupt him during your other sessions that are reflected in plaintiff's exhibit 2?Dr Anderson (31:30), Yes. About the ratings: GreatSchools ratings are based on a comparison of test results for all schools in the state. Heard obtained a restraining order against Depp in May 2016 after accusing him of abuse, which he denied, and the pair settled their divorce out of court in 2017. About an inch., So is it fair to say those are small bruises in more than one place? Jurors convicted both brothers of first-degree murder last year. Nothing in that next session. I noticed that some people on Twitter were confused because the DV community says there is no such thing as mutual abuse. They may have been in other places throughout her body. She threw can at him since home fighting. You were seeing multiple bruises on Amber's face when you were talking about how the size of it your fingers were under your eyes. "Question (41:41)"Did you respond to her? I think there's other data that will support this. Locations Practice 1 9911 W Pico Blvd # 1070, Los Angeles, CA 90035 (310) 826-9576 9911 W Pico Blvd # 1070 Los Angeles, CA 90035 Mr. Depp's mother was in ICU. She showed me photos, but she also came in and showed me in person. From Dr Anderson's testimony about her Treatment Summary: And how did you come to the understanding that on some occasions Miss Heard physically abused Mr. Depp?Dr Anderson (16:11), Miss Heard reported that.Question (16:12), What did Miss Heard report to you?Dr Anderson (16:15). But I'm also copying down a word here and there. There may have been more, but I don't remember., Go back very briefly to exhibit two. (It's possible that it came up and we just don't know about it, but the lack of testimony about these sessions points toward them being about subjects other than DV.). she came in --- she talked to me by phone, and then came in the next day. Languages English Education Medical Board Certifications Geriatric Medicine, American Board of Internal Medicine, 2005. The second half is a more continuous transcriptpresented in a timeline sequence without much commentary. And so is it your testimony that she showed you photos of her injuries shortly after the alleged event.Dr Anderson (55:45), Somewhere in the period while she still had injuries. Some people see it as an admission by Johnny that he was just as violent as Amber, and it could be taken that way, butI think that it is quite open-ended as to what Johnny might have meant. "if he was going to leave her to deescalate from the fight, she would strike him to keep him there". Hi Nanda. And if she's triggered, she would hit him first.Question (33:34), When you said that she sometimes hits Johnny first because of pride, what did you mean?Dr Anderson (33:42), She was sensitive to feeling disrespected and a number of other things. And she says that she hits back and now she starts it and sometimes hits him first because her history is having been violated by her father physically and just out of pride, a lot of things trigger her. Fax. Times given in brackets throughout represent the time on the transcript. Dr. Laurel Anderson. But I don't have a photo of it. Her current practice location is 9911 W Pico Blvd, 1070, Los Angeles. It was a process issue.. What she reported to me, which was an improvement that she didn't participate.. From her testimony presented at the US defamation trial, Dr Anderson does not appear to have the advantage we have in hearing the2-hour recorded conversation between Amber and Johnnythat occurred the day before Amber emailed Dr Anderson to set up an initial marriage counseling appointment. So I took everything I thought and believed conceptually about them. 4 in-person or phone sessions with Amber: Oct 6, 2015 -- Amber's intake session. The excuse that "I hit them because they disrespected me" is a marker of someone who grossly overreacts and turns to physical violence when they are emotionally hurt. 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